EXCLUSIVE: THE BIG INTERVIEW WITH FOUR SEASONS SONGWRITER AND CREATOR BOB GAUDIO
The man who wrote the Four Seasons hits, co-founded the group and sang on stage as pat of the group waked away in the mid 70’s after a staggering and sensational 12-year-run at the top.
Bob Gaudio wanted to go on to write and produce a host of other superstars and he did with everybody from Barbra Streisand, Neil Diamond, Frank Sinatra, Diana Ross to Michael Jackson. In 1995 after Record of the Year awards, Grammy nominations and with “Who Loves You” and “Oh What a Night” on Billboard’s longest charted records for over a year. In 1995 he was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame as “the quintessential music maker.” But throughout his extraordinary and super-successful career he always wanted to tell the whole behind-the-scenes story of the group’s success. It took nearly 40 years and now he watches over The Jersey Boys nightly in one theater or the other around America. What’s even more incredible is that as partners Bob and Frankie Valli only have a handshake between them that’s lasted all that time right until today! No lawyer’s contract! No high-powered attorney’s documents! Just a binding New Jersey friend’s handshake! I sat with Bob in the empty Palazzo theater the night before the Vegas premiere for our exclusive and revealing conversation:
RL: What is the magic and the lasting appeal of the Four Seasons as the Jersey Boys? Why now 40-45 years later is it part of an era that’s bigger now than it was back then?
BG: That is a difficult one to answer especially for me. This is the first time that I have been able to be an audience participant, to sit in the audience and feel what they must have felt during that era of the sixties and the seventies. I have to credit the writing and direction of Dez, Marshall and Rick. It is so well put together that I think it would stand up even if the songs weren’t that popular. I think it is just the show is so well done otherwise it is just a bunch of familiar songs.
RL: It is more than the familiarity; it was the content of the songs that made them work. It is pure unadulterated love, struggle and love again, isn’t it?
BG: It is the Rocky story and music. We have always related to a blue-collar audience and passion. It has always been about the music for us. I guess that came out in our records. We weren’t the glamour boys. If we didn’t make a great record we weren’t on the radio. So, we had to work at it. I think that shows in some of the records we have made. We took great care and focused on what we were doing. There weren’t a lot of distractions for us. It was survival.
RL: You have watched some of the preview Vegas audiences. Is it a mix of both young and old?
BG: It leans towards the over 45 crowd but we do see a younger audience. There are some ushers in here that can’t be over 25; they have been back to see the show 4 or 5 times. Some of them said they had to pay, so I guess that is a good sign.
RL: Were you worried at all about coming to Vegas, which seems to have held a heavy hammer against Broadway shows?
BG: Yeah, it is similar to NY, When we were testing the show first in La Jolla we got an amazing response, the electricity coming out of the audience was phenomenal. We knew what we were in for. The Beach Boys show was opening. All Shook Up, the Lennon show, none of them made it, so it was similar to what happens here, so yeah there is apprehension. The way I see Vegas is it is like NJ without the grass.
RL: Is there a similarity between what Mamma Mia! had as a success 5,6,7 years now and renewed until April of next year. Is there a similarity here of the timing from yesteryear, the bounce of the music from that era?
BG: Yeah it is a factor, familiar music. People know what they are going to hear. We have some surprises in our show. It is biographical, but yeah I think it is an important factor, and if that is a part to being successful in Vegas, maybe, if we prove equally successful you would have to start tracking that and say if you don’t know the songs, the show is not going to stick around very long.
RL: Is it fun or strange to watch yourself being brought back to life?
BG: It is both. It at first was surreal. It was an out of body experience. After awhile I started enjoying the show as a show, then I went through the phase of what was wrong with it and why weren’t the harmonies right and correcting it from my standpoint. Now, it is still a bit of both. I get off on watching the audience and watching the people have such a great time and listening to them. I don’t get recognized. I am the back seat driver. I like to stand outside and listen to what the comments are.
RL: With no one recognizing you do you ever get the urge to jump up and join in and let everybody know who you are? Do you think, because you were the original that you could do it better than them?
BG: Not for a second. These kids sing, dance, they look better then we did. We had an originality to us, there is no question about it, but could we compare with the talent on this stage, no, these kids act, sing and dance. I wrote and produced and sang. I couldn’t wait to get off of that stage every night.
RL: When was the last time you performed as part of the original group?
BG: I think the last time we were all together was at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It wasn’t a concert. It was 1970 something. I left the group early 70’s. I stopped performing and Frankie continued on. I went off to write and produce and do other thing, so I have been off the stage a very long time.
RL: Frankie continued on and was the front face of the Four Seasons.
You had driven the bus, you created the bus, you built the bus and yet you are not anywhere near as well known as he is still to this day. Does that irk you, do you laugh about it?
BG: It is chosen place to be for me. I don’t know if I was side by side with him in the performance dept. if things that were accomplished could have been accomplished. There is an outside view that I have always had of our partnership. The 45 years of handshake. I think it was an important thing that I could look in and be a lot more objective. I was not caught up in the limelight. I still feel that way today. I am thrilled. I’m certainly a lot more recognizable now, but not to the point where it is hindering.
RL: Was the handshake between you ever formalized? Did it ever become a contract or did the handshake just last a long long time.
BG: It is still to this day on the handshake. It may be the only one of it’s kind in the entire world of pop music. We have had many colleges that have asked us to appear and discuss exactly that. They wanted a Q & A thing about how and why. I am sure it is interesting. We got a call way back, 20-30 years ago about doing an article in Time magazine. I said finally some recognition here. It turns out it was in the financial section. It was how did you guys keep this together with a handshake for so long. That is what the article was about. It shows how important that was to a lot of people especially the ones that have 20 attorneys working for them. They still can’t figure it out.
RL: What was the glue that did keep it together?
BG: I think it was the music. I think Frankie and I were on the same wavelength. We were attracted to each other for the same reason, his voice, my writing and playing whatever. It was a marriage made in heaven, as is the case with this show. From top to bottom everyone involved in Jersey Boys is perfect. There is not a weak link. You can view that any number of different ways. It wasn’t a hand picked situation. Things just came together and worked.
RL: Over the years were there hiccups in the honeymoon, in the marriage?
BG: When I left the group, I think Frankie felt deserted. That is portrayed in the show and it is true. I understand that. I think he understands it now too. There was a reason for us to do it the way we did it and it has certainly proved to be a successful combination. He is comfortable with it now. I am sure at the time there was apprehension.
RL: Compare the pop music world back then with what happened with The Beatles, and what we have today.
BG: Essentially there is no record industry right now. It is all about live performances, which we are into right now. When I was a kid, I knew nothing. I got ripped off and the only thing I got out of it was a car from my first hit “Short Shorts.” I don’t think artists had the protection like what they have now. There is a good and a bad side to that now. They are better represented, the deals are better. Most artists will get their masters back and publishing back. We were innovative early on in acquiring our masters but that took a bit of time before we realized what was going on, so in that sense artists know what is going on when they do get a deal and it has been a lot more lucrative now. Along with all the changes in technology they are actually putting record companies out of business. That and the negotiating power where the deals are in favor of the artists. To be fair I don’t have a problem with that. I wish it were the case in our time.
RL: Think back to that ,music building on Broadway when you were launching yourselves. There were thousands of groups coming in with demos from their backyards and you don’t see that today in the volume of kids trying to be a four-person band.
BG: No, but on the other hand, the Internet is able to expose them to
minimal amounts of money and they can start a following and work in clubs and small venues. That wasn’t the case. You couldn’t walk into a building now without proper representation. They won’t even listen. Not that there is anyone left to listen at this point anyway. Even personality radio is not what it used to be. There were times back in our days with radio where we would have a DJ like Joey Reynolds who would go to the wall for a record. He played “Sherry” for six hours straight and got fired because he locked the control room door. That is the personality. People were passionate about the music. It happened in the rap world. Kids would be playing music from the streets and truck. There still is a passion. I don’t have a problem with that. It is about the streets and that is what the record buying audience has related to for years.
RL: Frankie has seen the show a number of time in NY and he is here for the premiere. What is his take on it?
BG: I think it was tougher on Frankie. It was tough on me watching Frankie opening night in La Jolla. That was the first time we both saw the show. His personal life has some tragedies. He was brave enough to say if we are going to do it, let’s do it like it is. It was tough, because I knew it was going to be emotional. I don’t know how far past that he is. I don’t expect you can lose a child and not get emotional under those circumstances. He doesn’t see it as often as I do. I see it sometimes for technical reasons, but he walks out saying, “my God it is just amazing.”
RL: Here at The Palazzo this is all bigger, smarter, with a more expensive theater than the Great White Way. Is Vegas a bigger gamble than NY?
BG: We have a proven history with the show, so from that standpoint it is a bit less for us. I don’t think I have ever had a more frightening evening than opening night in NY. Even after La Jolla being successful, NY is NY and all it would take is a handful of critics to destroy us. I am very positive about this in Vegas. If it doesn’t succeed here, I don’t think it is the fault of the show. If Vegas is not ready for a theater piece then so be it.
RL: I sense this has all of the things Vegas needs for a show, which is that you don’t have to think too deeply and you can walk out knowing the songs. I think that helps.
BG: I think it helps tremendously, but I would say you have to think a little more than Mamma Mia!, I don’t mean that is a derogatory manner, there is a lot of emotion in this show and it is the truth. There are a lot of ups and downs and fortunately it ends up with ups. I think we cut through the full gamut of emotions.
RL: I know you’re an East Coast guy but what do you think of Vegas?
BG: This is a playground. Could I live here? Probably not. I know you love it and I can see why. I have been here for three weeks now and I was talking to my wife about an apartment. It is terrific; I am an East Coast guy. I lived in LA for 30 years and we moved back and we are in NY and in Nashville. That is our main home I have no problem out here. I would just like more water around Vegas.
RL: Are you personally still writing?
BG: I have been so involved since this all began as a thought for the last 10 years that I haven’t had the time or desire. My desire has been to keep my hands on this as much and make sure it stays to the quality in NY. It is us.
RL: It was a piece of musical history, it was never copied, are those some of the things?
BG: Absolutely. It is not the easiest thing to do. They are doing eight shows a week. You really need to treat yourself as an athlete. Frankie’s music and what he has done covers such a broad spectrum of vocal gyration that you just can’t take a nap.
RL: How unique was his voice in 1961, and how do you find a singer-actor to duplicate that voice?
BG: I think if you had the chance to see all four or five productions in a row, you would find every Frankie portrayal slightly different. They are actors, they get into character, and they know what they are doing. They get the emotion of it all. They have to make the melodies, have the range and all of that, but each is different. That is what I love about it so much, this is not a cloning. I don’t think that anyone has seen the show in NY will be like don’t bother it is the same show in Vegas, they are all slightly different and each actor brings an intangible quality that makes it so successful.
RL: How is Frankie’s voice today?
BG: He’s in his 70’s and is still performing. He doesn’t have to, but he loves it.
RL: He played here in Vegas. He was at The Orleans.
BG: He is out there doing concerts and the success of Jersey Boys hasn’t hurt. It has become iconic. There are some that come to see Jersey Boys and they have to see where it all started. It is the same withthe catalog and the audiences want to see the origins. There are times I will be out in the lobby and they will be playing the cast album and I can’t tell the difference. The one give away for me is the tempo. The cast album won a Grammy for best cast album. There are times under certain circumstances when I am walking and I think uh oh is that Frankie? Sometime you can’t tell a difference between that and the original. The tempo is slightly different, but that is how good they are.
RL: Is there a difference because that album is recorded digitally and you had four tracks back then if you were lucky.
BG: Very lucky. I think the first eight tracks we did was Dawn and it was Bob Crewe, Tommy Doud and myself and we did eight tracks and the three of us had a hard time mixing that. That is six hands for eight tracks. Digitally now it is a piece of cake, but I listen to old records and they really do hold up. We had some great engineers and great studios. Even the originals hold up so well. The show is a great show; the story is as equally as strong and passionate as the music had been over the years and I think it is an evening not to be missed.
RL: Do you ever wonder how on earth does this happen and why did it last?
BG: It is and I have thought about Frankie as a lead singer in one form or another in Grease and other things he has done, how remarkable that is. He is probably the only lead singer in history that never left the group. It is usually the total opposite. We have had a remarkable run nearly five decades, it has been up, down and comeback after comeback and I think maybe this Jersey Boys show is the final comeback.”